SANGOKAI

My name is Mihai , 34 years old and unfortunately not a speaker of the German language. I got in this hobby first with freshwater a few years ago after making a present to my nephew( a small tank).Seeing a stunning living reef with my own eyes while on vacation I decided to go marine. I read for about a year on all things marine (also had some decent knowledge from keeping freshwater aquariums). About 6 months ago I felt confident to keep a very low tech pico (heater + a small led for freshwater plants + 3 small pumps) with a blenny , some snails and hermits and some very easy to keep corals.

Fast forward to the start of October I decided to set up my proper reef tank within the limits of my location/time/budget etc. I went for Aquarium Systems L'Aquarium 250 as it was the desired size with a decent sump and cabinet quality. I used 3-4 mm sand , allot(way too much) of dead reef rock + coral fingers. The start date was I think 17 October and I also used 3 Kg of live rock to jump start things as I knew I can be impatient sometimes , not denying to other benefits of live rock. After less then 2 weeks I added the living things from my pico. A week later added some chromis and a clowny.

I am here to learn. I really like to read and improve my aquarium keeping act and hear other, more experience people that created great, stable long term systems. Not a fan of mechanical filtration , strong believer in turbocharged biological/bacterial regulation, good current flow ,observation/measurements and "less is more" creed - in contradiction with my fish stoking so far . I kept my pico at 28C and I keep my tank at 27C as a way to ensure summer heat does not shock the aquarium ( in my apartment it can get pretty hot even with AC sometimes on and I want to avoid a chiller)


My aquarium:

Aquarium/Sump/Stand - Aquarium Systems L'Aquarium 250 (60x52x55 tank and 60l sump - around 250l total)
Lights - Hybrid Giesemann Stellar 60 cm + GHL Mitras LX 7204
Flow - 2 x Rossmont M7200 + Rossmont Wave Controller and 2 x Sicce Nano 2000L + 1 Sicce Nano 1000L (for sump circulation)
Return Pump - Sicce Sincra 2.5 (2400 L 2.4h)
ATM Eheim Refill ( only item I would not buy again as it proved unsuitable ) /Autofeeder /JumpGuard
No skimmer of yet but will add one with both CO2 scrubber and Ozone (for supercharging biological processes) when the tank matures more
One sump compartment in the process of becoming an algae refuge and I plan to add soon a GHL controller


A picture less then 3 weeks from start (I got stingy on the magnet cleaner , working on it )


picture host

Welcome to the sangokai forum. It is nice to read that you are dealing with the matter of sea water.

MasterBlaster hat geschrieben: I kept my pico at 28C and I keep my tank at 27C as a way to ensure summer heat does not shock the aquarium ( in my apartment it can get pretty hot even with AC sometimes on and I want to avoid a chiller)

Concerning the temperature, please reduce it to 25 degrees celcius, because at higher temperatures the metabolism is higher.

What are your current water values (PO4, NO3, Ca, KH)? You have hardly any corals in your tank, what is the reason for this? You should occupy relatively fast the aquarium with corals.

tropicreef hat geschrieben:What are your current water values (PO4, NO3, Ca, KH)? You have hardly any corals in your tank, what is the reason for this? You should occupy relatively fast the aquarium with corals.

The reason I did not add allot of corals is because the tank is very young and still getting biologically stable , don't want to risk killing corals until I feel the ones from the pico are thriving. Because I had bad light(freshwater plants lighting) all SPS were brown and I even lost a small acropora. I am waiting at a minimum for the two SPS corals to get normal colours. The montipora one is still brown but the other one has normal colours now.

Related to the temperature , I know that most sea creatures have a metabolism controlled by the water temperature. I know that with a higher temps things (good or bad) happen faster. But based on what I read (The Biology of Coral Reefs book ) the average reef temperatures around the world is 27.6C. Why is it a problem if the metabolism is a bit higher ?

MasterBlaster hat geschrieben:The reason I did not add allot of corals is because the tank is very young and still getting biologically stable ,

This is no longer the procedure in modern seawater aquaristics. As a rule, the aquarium should be occupied relatively quickly with corals to establish competition with algae and bacteria.

MasterBlaster hat geschrieben:But based on what I read (The Biology of Coral Reefs book ) the average reef temperatures around the world is 27.6C. Why is it a problem if the metabolism is a bit higher ?

This is the average temperature with a strong fluctuation, which should be avoided in the aquarium. Please set the temperature to 25 degrees celcius. At higher temperatures more nutrients are needed to serve the increased metabolism.

I need more information about our maintance of your Aquarium:

1. You give the salinity as 34. How did you measure it?
2. You write: "I had bad light(freshwater plants lighting) all SPS were brown and I even lost a small acropora.". What kind of lighting do you currently have above the aquarium? Which settings are currently configured.
3. Have you set up a mechanical filtration system?
4. Do you use activated carbon in the sump?
5. Do you prepare the source water before use?
6. Which sea salt is used?
7. How much water is changed proportionally [%] and at in what intervals (per week/month)?
8. How do you stabilize the lime balance in the Aquarium?
9. Are water additives (e.g. trace elements or aminos) used?
10. What kind of tests you are using? Are these results referenced?

I recommend you to redesign the rock structure a little. Build higher and with more shelters. The water must wash around the rocks very well.

First of all thanks for the detailed feedback. I will provide more info bellow :

1.Got a refractometer (D-D True Seawater Refractometer) calibrated each second measurement with Salifert Refracto Check Calibration Solution(35). The measurements are made at 21C room temp. The other tests are done with Tropic Marin testing products.

2.As specified in introduction post using a Hybrid Giesemann Stellar(not dimmable version) 60 cm(using ATI tubes -2 coral plus 1 Aqua Blue Special and 1 Purple plus) + GHL Mitras LX 7204 set to 60% max (it ramps up and decreases based on time of day). Lighting is 12h with led starting first at about 11:00 AM and in 45 min 2 T5 get energy and then in 2h the rest of the tubs).Lighting stops at 11:00 PM in the reverse order of start.

3.No mechanical filtration used. I removed the sock and replaced it with a media cup (plastic cup with holes) full of Seachem Matrix. I plan to vacuum the sump from time to time and set some Wolle before the return chamber when I am working in the sump to catch all the stirred particles.

4.Currently carbon is not used as the water is pretty clean based on the tests. Plan to use the carbon as needed and mandatory when I set up the ozone .But that is a long discussion in itself.

5.Use an Aquamedic RO unit with resin so I use in theory pure water. I suspect a problem here or there is have some contamination after in the pool . Let me explain ...Because of owning a freshwater aquarium I know the importance of slow acclimatization of living things to new aquarium conditions. So I drip acclimated all my animals over 1.5-2h before adding them in the new aquarium. All animals were ok except my 2 trochus snails. One got really inactive and died after 3 days and other lasted longer before going inactive and dying. I have substrate snails(Nassarius sp) and the are active at night or when there is food(know Nassarius are very very hardy). Also snails from the live rock (visually close to Nassarius but algae eaters) and they are fine as well or seem fine. I suspect here there is a contamination to metals that are really toxic for those snails as everyone else looks ok.Hence a 50% water change this weekend and a ICP test later next week.

6.Based on what I read some of the best salts are Tropic Marin Pro. In my nano I used Tropic Marin Syn-Biotic (based on my understanding it is same with Tropic Marin Pro + Tropic Marin Reef Actif addition and bacteria). At the start of the system also Syn-Biotic was used and will use it 1-2 months until by bucket gets consumed. Then will switch to Tropic Marin Pro of which I already have a 25kg bucket.

7.As the system is 3 weeks old have not changed saltwater once. Plan to do a big change this weekend of about 50%(see snail problems).My normal salt exchange routine will be every 2 weeks 35% changed or every months 50% changed, not decided. The aquarium is small so I can still do big changes , also not a fan of small amount change as dilution and replacement of micro elements is almost insignificant.

8. "How do you stabilize the lime balance in the Aquarium?" Not sure I understand your question. I don't have major consumers of alkalinity yet(as far as I understand) so not really worried at this time. If your question refers to PH here I do seem to have a problem as the PH seems low. Not sure what is the causes but I think too much CO2 in the room and allot of biologic processes with the start of the reef play a part in this. I did dose some PH buffer(Tropic Marin Triple Buffer) to avoid getting a very low PH and potentially loosing my fish .

9.Because no corals and system still ramping up biologically I did not add any additives apart from once a week Tropic Marin bacteria solution and the PH/KH buffer I already mentioned. From what I read I know some important micro elements deplete very fast so I have them at hand (Iodine /Iron and Potassium) but have not dosed them yet. No tests yet for those. On the long run I plan to use a calcium reactor and only dose micro elements but I imagined that's about 4-6 months in the future. I imagine water changes solve my current needs.

10.As mentioned I used Tropic Marin for all except Ca and Mg . For those two I use the AquaForest tests. The results are not verified but next week I plan to do ICP tests on both my RO water and aquarium water.

MasterBlaster hat geschrieben:As specified in introduction post using a Hybrid Giesemann Stellar(not dimmable version) 60 cm(using ATI tubes -2 coral plus 1 Aqua Blue Special and 1 Purple plus) + GHL Mitras LX 7204 set to 60% max (it ramps up and decreases based on time of day).

How you have configured the leds?

a recommendation for the Mitras LX72xx is
UV off - max. 15%
violett: 20 - max. 50%
royal blue: 75-80%
sky blue: 90-100%
475 nm blue: 90-100%
green: off - max. 25%
red: off - max. 20%
white 6500K + 7500K: 80-100%

The next time don't use the ATI Purple plus bulb . A good combination ist 2 ATI ABS and 2ATI BP.

tropicreef hat geschrieben: I recommend you to redesign the rock structure a little. Build higher and with more shelters. The water must wash around the rocks very well.

Agreed , I have to redesign the rock work as what I have now is even more full then the posted picture. The objective is an aquascape that is good for microfauna with allot of hiding places and visual line of sight breakers (so that fish don't see each other all the time) . See crypt type rock formation(https://youtu.be/9eGcY46wXvc?list=PLnfb ... 4xq3S&t=42) . But at the end of the day it's gonna be a nightmare to create flow everywhere.

tropicreef hat geschrieben:

MasterBlaster hat geschrieben:As specified in introduction post using a Hybrid Giesemann Stellar(not dimmable version) 60 cm(using ATI tubes -2 coral plus 1 Aqua Blue Special and 1 Purple plus) + GHL Mitras LX 7204 set to 60% max (it ramps up and decreases based on time of day).

How you have configured the leds?

a recommendation for the Mitras LX72xx is
UV off - max. 15%
violett: 20 - max. 50%
royal blue: 75-80%
sky blue: 90-100%
475 nm blue: 90-100%
green: off - max. 25%
red: off - max. 20%
white 6500K + 7500K: 80-100%

The next time don't use the ATI Purple plus bulb . A good combination ist 2 ATI ABS and 2ATI BP.

Thanks , I will set it up the next time I connect to the Mitras.

First of all, I have to say, you've been doing a good job with the matter. To the individual points I would like to give back information.

MasterBlaster hat geschrieben:1.Got a refractometer (D-D True Seawater Refractometer) calibrated each second measurement with Salifert Refracto Check Calibration Solution(35). The measurements are made at 21C room temp. The other tests are done with Tropic Marin testing products.

Once the refractometer has been correctly calibrated, it works very well. It is not necessary to recalibrate the refractometer in such short intervals.

MasterBlaster hat geschrieben:2.As specified in introduction post using a Hybrid Giesemann Stellar(not dimmable version) 60 cm(using ATI tubes -2 coral plus 1 Aqua Blue Special and 1 Purple plus) + GHL Mitras LX 7204 set to 60% max (it ramps up and decreases based on time of day). Lighting is 12h with led starting first at about 11:00 AM and in 45 min 2 T5 get energy and then in 2h the rest of the tubs).Lighting stops at 11:00 PM in the reverse order of start.

As mentioned before, please post the configuration of the LED settings here. If possible, please also post a picture of the lighting curve here. You can set the red LED to o%; there is already enough red in the ATI PP tube. Red light represses the photophysiology of stony corals.

MasterBlaster hat geschrieben:No mechanical filtration used. I removed the sock and replaced it with a media cup (plastic cup with holes) full of Seachem Matrix. I plan to vacuum the sump from time to time and set some Wolle before the return chamber when I am working in the sump to catch all the stirred particles.

Matrix media to become clogged up with detritus and slime, so I recommend regular filter maintenance to ensure it continues working as efficiently as possible. You don't need the filter medium, because the bacteria are all sufficiently present in your aquarium and when you use corals these bacteria compete with the corals for nutrients uptake.

MasterBlaster hat geschrieben:4.Currently carbon is not used as the water is pretty clean based on the tests. Plan to use the carbon as needed and mandatory when I set up the ozone .But that is a long discussion in itself.

I don't reccomend the permanently usage of ozon. I poste here in the forum some more information about Ozon. If you use ozone in an aquarium please install activated carbon downstream. Activated carbon filtration removes the dominant oxidants of an ozonized seawater system (free bromine, bromamine). The removability of chloramines, which can occur during the ozonisation of bromide-free artificial seawater, is low in comparison.

MasterBlaster hat geschrieben:6.Based on what I read some of the best salts are Tropic Marin Pro. In my nano I used Tropic Marin Syn-Biotic (based on my understanding it is same with Tropic Marin Pro + Tropic Marin Reef Actif addition and bacteria). At the start of the system also Syn-Biotic was used and will use it 1-2 months until by bucket gets consumed. Then will switch to Tropic Marin Pro of which I already have a 25kg bucket.

Yes Tropic Marin Pro Reef is one the best sea salt you can use. Do not use salts with probiotic ingredients.

MasterBlaster hat geschrieben:7.As the system is 3 weeks old have not changed saltwater once. Plan to do a big change this weekend of about 50%(see snail problems).My normal salt exchange routine will be every 2 weeks 35% changed or every months 50% changed, not decided. The aquarium is small so I can still do big changes , also not a fan of small amount change as dilution and replacement of micro elements is almost insignificant

It is not necessary to change the water as often as necessary. see also topic 8.

MasterBlaster hat geschrieben:8. "How do you stabilize the lime balance in the Aquarium?" Not sure I understand your question. I don't have major consumers of alkalinity yet(as far as I understand) so not really worried at this time. If your question refers to PH here I do seem to have a problem as the PH seems low. Not sure what is the causes but I think too much CO2 in the room and allot of biologic processes with the start of the reef play a part in this. I did dose some PH buffer(Tropic Marin Triple Buffer) to avoid getting a very low PH and potentially loosing my fish .

By this I mean the supply of the aquarium with calcium and carbonates. As i said you have to begin to bring in corals into your aqaurium. to establish the supply you have several methods like Balling (two parts method). For your aquarium size i would prefer the sangokai balance system. With sangokai lime balance stabilisation you have perfect control over the calcium and carbonate content in your reef aquarium. Additional to this the chem-balance products also automate the addition of strontium, magnesium and all other major components to seawater. The biggest advantage of the balance system is, once correctly adjusted you don't have to change the water any more.

MasterBlaster hat geschrieben:9.Because no corals and system still ramping up biologically I did not add any additives apart from once a week Tropic Marin bacteria solution and the PH/KH buffer I already mentioned. From what I read I know some important micro elements deplete very fast so I have them at hand (Iodine /Iron and Potassium) but have not dosed them yet. No tests yet for those. On the long run I plan to use a calcium reactor and only dose micro elements but I imagined that's about 4-6 months in the future. I imagine water changes solve my current needs.

As i said start with bringing in corals in your aquarium. At the same time I recommend to dose both nutrients and trace elements. Do to this use the sango nutri-basic System. Is it possible for you to buy sangokai products in romania?

If I were you, I'd buy an protein skimmer first. Not primarily for water treatment but to achieve an effective gas exchange.